How to get a job in IT – pro tips from David Mayer and Neil Photikarm, Endpoint Utility Corp.
David Mayer and Neil Photikarm, two of the four founders of Endpoint Utility Corp in Kalispell, share their pro tips and advice with MHTBA on how to thrive in an IT career. David and Neil each have over twenty years of experience in the IT industry.
August 17, 2022
By Melissa Paulsen
IT (information technology) is a growing field with a variety of jobs – including many positions open to people with a high school diploma, 2- and 4-year degrees, or a non-technical college degree. According to the bureau of labor statistics, “employment in computer and information technology occupations is projected to grow 13 percent from 2020 to 2030, faster than the average for all occupations.” Whether you’re on the phone helping a customer solve a thorny technical problem or outsmarting criminals attempting cyberattacks, IT offers interesting challenges and lots of opportunities to grow in your career.
To better understand the popular field of IT and how future employees can excel in an IT career, the Montana High Tech Business Alliance interviewed CEO David Mayer and COO Neil Photikarm of Endpoint Utility Corp in Kalispell. Both David and Neil have over 25 years of experience working in IT and have managed teams of over 2,500 people while working for various Fortune 500 companies like Microsoft.
In this interview, David and Neil share their IT-know-how: including their tips for how you can succeed in an IT career and their thoughts on what you might encounter during a typical day working in IT. Questions and responses have been edited for length and clarity.
Could you start by telling us the story of your own careers - where you are from, your education, and your career path up to now?
David Mayer: My story of IT is emblematic of a lot of people’s stories. There was no direction leading up to [IT] until [I] got in it. I [grew up in] Iowa, and ended up at Illinois State University in Normal, Illinois [which] was where Neil and I met. My first major was in music education, and then I was told “you can’t sing, you can’t play piano, so you should find a different degree.” So, I graduated with my degree in finance.
I moved to Phoenix, Arizona, and my first job was teaching Microsoft software like Word. I loved the teaching and technology aspect [of the job]. [Then] one thing led to another. I went into selling technology for a reseller. Then I went to a services company where I did some inside sales. Then, in terms of big career moves, I got recruited over to a sales position at Microsoft and worked my way there into middle management. In Arizona, I went to another big reseller called Insight and then went through the career ladder there. I ended up as an executive running one of [Insight’s] divisions which had about 2500 people in it.
So, it isn’t necessarily about starting with a beginning and endpoint in mind. I started with a general direction of something I really enjoyed and was passionate about until one thing led to another. I was always open to the next opportunity.
Neil Photikarm: I am from the Chicagoland area, and when I went to ISU, my path was in the general of sciences. I was looking at physics as a major and started taking some classes in computer science. That’s when I got hooked on technology. So, I started with a path down Applied Computer Science.
After leaving ISU, I got a job in the IT world and started working before getting a degree in management to bring [my skillset] to the next level. First you become technical, but then you get into a field and understand that there is more in IT than just computers. It’s also about working with people. I ended up going into the manager field [for] large corporations. I also [switched from] a computer software or application focus, into more of a hardware mainframe focus later on in my career. You switch back and forth as you go, but that’s how my passion for IT [formed]. It became [about] always trying to solve a bigger puzzle, always trying to find the new next best technology out there, and just enjoying the path IT brings you [along].
What do you look for in a potential team member?
Neil: It’s about having the right attitude. I’ve always said throughout my career, “We could train and teach the skill, but we cannot train and teach the right attitude.” Working with people and building that relationship with the customer is first and foremost. We live in a great age where there are so many free online resources and webinars out there. We could point you in the right direction and you can learn the skill yourself.
The second trait I would say is being self-driven to understand the skill and having that drive to push yourself to the next level in where you want to be. There are many entry points into IT. We want you to be happy, but it’s for you to drive where you want to go into the IT world: whether it’s being an application developer or engineer, a hardware engineer, a network engineer, or even being a project manager within IT. Having the drive to control your own destiny is critical because that’s where you’re going to best perform and where you’re going to be happiest.
David: The thing that I look for when I talk to folks is two things. One is grit. In IT you will never know everything that can be known. IT is extremely wide and complex, but you must have the grit to push through your customer’s problem and push yourself through the learning curve. Grit can be reflected in different ways. A four-year degree is clearly someone who is capable of seeing things through to the end, and that’s just one example. We look for things like “Do you participate in activities where you have the opportunity to lead?” like membership in a group or an association, or even for high school students it can be [participating] in clubs or athletics. We look for anything that shows character, and that you want to go out and continue to learn and strive and push yourself. That’s something we can’t teach.
The second way I talk about [hiring] is passion. You have to have a passion for customers and a passion for helping people. But you also have to have a level of passion for technology. This is an all-consuming industry. Technology has to at least perk your imagination and draw you to it at a personal level.
If someone is just getting started in their IT career, and they're going to apply for a job at Endpoint Utility Corp, what would their job title typically be? What would be the expected responsibilities of that role?
David: They would generally come in as a service representative. They would take calls directly from customers that are saying “I have a problem” and then [representatives] would figure out “What is the problem and what is the solution?” The reason we like this [training method] is that there is no replacement for the experience of having a one-on-one interaction with the customer. Even if you end up going in a totally different direction, where now you've moved on to doing just hardcore code development, having that initial experience of interacting with the person, and [having] that understanding of what you do and how it affects someone else is paramount.
We like to hire people with two-year associate degrees. We also hire people with four-year degrees. In specialized cases, we could conceivably take somebody right out of high school that might start a half-level down from our usual starting point. But [with] two- and four-year degrees, you’ve got a great base of knowledge that we can help you build [from] and then give you experience to bring that [knowledge] into the real world.
Neil: I cannot stress Dave’s point further that [the entry-level] is where you learn the user experience and become a generalist. Coming in at a help desk is a great way, no matter what level of education you have, to understand the basis of IT. Then you take that experience with you 20 or 30 years later in your career [by] understanding the customer and what good customer service means. At the end of the day, IT exists to serve the customer.
What does the career ladder look like in IT? What are the mid-career level roles one could move up into and what are senior level roles they could aspire to down the road?
Neil: [An IT career] always starts off with serving as some sort of entry level help desk position. You start to get a feel for all the different aspects of IT — people, processes, and technology — and then you start to decide what you have more of a passion for and you start working toward that. Again, I go back to today’s world of there being so many resources to help you learn the next skill and push yourself into that area.
So, if you have a passion for delivering or getting something done, maybe being a project manager within IT is where you want to go. Or, if you really like coding, then you specialize in the code language or the software that is out there. Or, maybe you become even more of a subject matter expert in [an] application, which brings you to the next level as being a technical lead, functional lead, or subject matter expert. But, somewhere along the line, you have to decide whether you want to be a manager, or if you want to focus more on the person and the work versus staying hands on to the technology.
David: I think sometimes it gets lost with the assumption that [leading] a big team of people is what promotion means and that’s not always the case. In the IT field you can be in a senior-level position and do no management whatsoever. You can be a senior level coder who works on the hardest problems that come up within the code base that must be fixed, and you don’t have anybody that reports to you. I always tell students, “Hey, don’t think that you have to be in management or that management equals success.” There's plenty of opportunities to go down paths in sales, in marketing, in technical development, and in architecture design. None of those things have to involve tons and tons of people working for you.
Neil: There’s plenty of room to be in technology and not have to manage people, [while] still being a valuable person to the organization in terms of your innovative thinking in how to use technology.
Do you have advice for students on skills or experiences that are nice to have if they want to have lots of job options when they get out of school, or if they want to get promoted quickly in their IT career?
David: There’s a certification called the A+ Certification. There is no replacement for understanding the physical side of how [tech] works. A+ is all about hardware, like, “How does the laptop work physically?” and it helps [you] understand how the human interacts with the technology. That can’t be replaced or replicated.
Neil: [The A+ certification] is the foundation. It’s not just “I should get an A+ certification because I want to be in IT,” it’s, “I want to get my A+ certification so I can understand the foundation of IT and then take that foundation and apply it to even non-IT things.” It’s great [for] a project manager to understand how a computer works so they can translate that to how they lead the project, or so it can make them a better user of technology.
What also stands out to me is communication. It’s so important to be able to articulate your thoughts effectively and [to] listen to others effectively to understand their perspective. In every part of IT, and any other professional career, it’s critical to be able to talk through things. There are going to be a lot of conflicting objectives and heated [or] passionate discussions that happen. But the value in working in a group is in being able to talk, listen, and work through [the problem] and coming to some sort of alternative solution agreement.
David: I would add that understanding security in its general sense [is important]. If you’re a coder, you write your software correctly so it’s secure. If you’re an architect, you design the directory so its secure.
Then the last thing I would put on the list would be core concepts around networking. Computers also have to talk, so you have to understand the concept of the fact that this application has to talk to all kinds of different devices. Understanding the core concepts of networking are foundational to making you future proof.
Are there certifications or credentials that are particularly popular in the field right now that you would recommend someone pursue as they’re moving through their career?
Neil: Besides A+, if we look at the process side and how we troubleshoot, there is what we call ITIL Standard, which basically gives us the framework about the processes and how we operate IT. There’s plenty of resources out there to help you understand each of the ITIL towers within IT and their purpose. If you look through Microsoft Learn, there are so many different online classes that are free and can lead you into a certification. IT is very broad and getting into [IT] you want to get the foundation, then once you have the foundation you want to funnel it down into some sort of specialty. Based on where you want to specialize in, or where’s your passion, you start taking classes toward that. CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate) is a big one out there as a foundation for understanding how computers talk to each other, how that [communication] happens, and [understanding] the languages or the protocols.
David: What tends to happen very quickly is that within a discipline, it starts to go down the path of a vendor, like getting a certification from Microsoft, Apple, or Google. Those are very good things. Then based on what you’re passionate about, you can get a certification in security or Office 365, etc. None of those are bad to have on your resume. More is better, broader is better, so I wouldn’t discourage anybody from going down those tracks.
Recommended IT Credentials and Certifications
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-Aaniiih Nakoda College: Computer Information Systems Associate’s Degree
-Carroll College: Computer Information Systems Major/Minor Degree Program
-Flathead Valley Community College: Associate’s Degree Information Technology Program
-Fort Peck Community College: Information Technology Certificate Program or Associate’s Degree
-Gallatin College: IT Computer Network Technology Certificate Program or Associate’s Degree
-Great Falls College: CIT Network Support & Security Associate’s Degree
-Little Big Horn College: Information Technology Certificate Program or Associate’s Degree
-Miles Community College: Information Technology Associate’s Degree
-Missoula College: Information Technology & Cyber Security Certificate Program or Associate’s Degree
-Montana Tech: Cybersecurity and Network Administration Bachelor’s Degree
-Salish Kootenai College: Information Technology, Associate of Science Degree
-Stone Child College: Information Systems, Associate of Science Degree
Is it necessary to learn coding for a career in IT?
Neil: I don’t think it’s necessary, but I do think understanding the fundamentals of coding makes a huge difference. It’s not so much as learning the language of a specific code, it’s learning the logic of “how is it coded?” and how to think like software.
David: We’re not a development company, but we work with the outcome of people that write code. Having that base understanding of how [code] works then allows us to be able to translate the problem back to the customer when they call us. It allows us to be a better partner.
Neil: Understanding the logic and how logic works makes you a better troubleshooter. I find in this business, half my day is troubleshooting, whether it’s a technical problem, a management problem, or a resource problem.
What do you love about your work?
Neil: Working with [Dave], to be honest. He’s my friend first, but when we look at the big picture and the challenges we have ahead of us, it’s [about] having a friend to talk to, and being able to do something bigger than myself. I could not have done what I do at Endpoint Utility without Dave and that’s vice versa. The whole is bigger than the individual, which excites me about the company.
David: I ditto that, and I would add to it an external perspective [of] being able to see the fruits immediately of what it is you do. When somebody calls us, there’s a problem, and so to be able to resolve that [problem] and get [the customer] back to work and hearing the relief in their voice over [returning] to what they love to do, that’s what gets me excited.
What are the pros and cons of working in IT generally?
Neil: IT does not sleep. Be prepared to be woken up in the middle of the night. As the world becomes more global, IT becomes more global. You will work odd hours, it’s just the nature of IT. That is the biggest con. IT is a challenging field. You’re challenged by working with different personalities, [and] you’re challenged with an ever-evolving technology. The biggest pro is the people. I always enjoyed talking to the customer and building that relationship.
David: It’s been quite a career. I met my wife because we both worked at the same Microsoft office. I’ve had the opportunity to meet, understand, and work with some amazing large companies to learn about their business and how they operate. I probably wouldn’t have had that experience otherwise. For better or for worse, IT is so woven into the fabric of how business operates. You’ve got to take the good and the bad on anything.
How would you describe a typical day working in IT?
David: Somebody once told me “If you’re really great at ‘time-sharing’ your brain, IT is great,” because you do this thing for fifteen minutes, then you jump over to this [task] for an hour, and then you jump to another [task]. [You’re] jumping and bouncing all over the place. In founding a company, what I had to relearn to appreciate was to be able to take [an objective] and work it through to a point of conclusion.
Neil: And it’s important to be realistic about those [objectives]. We would like to get ten [tasks] done each day, but maybe we can only [achieve] four. My day is lots of email. I’m here to listen to the customer and troubleshoot problem(s). We do carve out time to be proactive and [we] try to anticipate what the problem [will be] before it happens. I force myself to think about what’s going to happen next and how to prevent it.
David: A typical day is [also] constant communication. It’s the text message, the email, the virtual meeting, the sitting down and writing the document. If you’re not passionate about [IT] and you constantly have to communicate about [IT] that’s going to be a problem. But if you like to talk about [IT], you will have all day to talk about [IT] in various formats.
Why did you decide to build your company in Kalispell, Montana?
David: There was an opportunity to serve local customers and help them grow their business. But more important to us was that the kind of people who make our business concept successful are the kind of people that live [in Montana]. I say that not from a perspective of IT education or training, but just the people themselves.
You have to be somebody who is wanting to work because IT is not the easiest job in the world. You never know what the next problem is going to be. The next phone call is “my printer doesn’t work,” and then the next is “I can’t remember my password.” [Being] hard working is deeply rooted in all the folks in Montana.
You also have to be a nice person. When somebody calls us, they’re frustrated. They’re trying to do their job and they can’t because the thing is broken (whatever the thing is). So, you have to be calm, you have to be kind, and you have to be empathetic. We saw [those characteristics] deeply [in Montana].
Is there anything that we have not talked about yet that you think might be helpful to those interested in IT?
David: Don’t overlook math, honestly, as it is a foundational [skill]. It’s [about] being able to understand logic patterns and being able to work through problems to a firm outcome. There’s always an answer. Whether it’s coding and developing an application, resolving a customer’s problem, [or] developing a new physical product, everything has a logic pattern that needs to be followed.
Even though my degree was in finance, and I’ve never been a finance manager, understanding the logical concepts of numbers has been hugely positive and impactful on my career. You can get that [skill] through different means. You can be a physics major, a computer science major, [or] you can do finance or accounting, it doesn’t matter, so long as you understand how numbers work and how logic patterns are established.
Neil: Stay positive. You’re capable of [success]. Believe in yourself. You are going to be challenged in the IT field, and you’re going to be challenged all through life. Staying positive helps you come up with a better solution, helps you work better with people, and helps you communicate. There are going to be a lot of difficult times. Just having the right attitude when you walk in the door every day and liking, or loving, what you do is important.
Interested in learning more about Endpoint Utility Corp? Watch MHTBA's full video interview with David and Neil below:
About the company:
Endpoint Utility Corp provides 24/7 on-demand technical support for small to mid-sized businesses. The company’s origins stem from the coming together of four longtime friends who share decades of experience in the IT industry. Founded in 2021, Endpoint Utility is driven to help small and mid-sized businesses leverage technology to accomplish their goals and accelerate their growth.
The Alliance launched its career pathways interview series in June of 2022 to help Montanans find high-paying jobs in the tech industry.
About the Publisher: Launched in 2014, the Montana High Tech Business Alliance is a nonpartisan nonprofit association of more than 200 high tech and manufacturing companies and affiliates creating high-paying jobs in Montana. For more information, visit MTHighTech.org or subscribe to our biweekly newsletter.
About the Author: Melissa Paulsen is the Communications Coordinator for the Montana High Tech Business Alliance. She graduated from the University of Montana in 2022 with a BFA in creative writing.
