Passenger Rail in Montana: How Trains Could Transform Business Travel to Billings, Bozeman, Helena, Missoula and Beyond
Transportation is an ongoing challenge for business connectivity across Montana. Long drives and expensive flights are typically the only alternatives for in-state business travel. The recent push to restore passenger rail across southern Montana could have immediate economic benefits:
Easier, more affordable trips between cities
Ability to work while traveling
Less environmental impact
Safer travel to Cat/Griz games
15:1 return on investment for the state
John-Robert Smith, chair and senior policy adviser, Transportation for America, will discuss:
Current opportunities and threats to passenger rail in Montana
Brand new study on the impact of long-distance trains on local economies, including Montana’s northern Empire Builder
Federal grant programs available to fund rail infrastructure expansion Logistics of working with Amtrak, BNSF and other rail companies
Case studies of businesses benefiting from rail expansion in Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama
This webinar is a preview of the Montana Passenger Rail Virtual Summit to be held Thursday, September 17. Register to attend the free summit to learn how you can support the work of the Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority in Montana. Feel free to forward this invitation to other business leaders who would benefit.
Speaker Bio: John-Robert Smith currently serves as chairman of Transportation for America, where he advises on strategy, capacity building and national outreach. He became chairman in 2012 after leading Reconnecting America as president and CEO. He previously served as mayor of Meridian, Mississippi, for 16 years. During his tenure, he facilitated public-private partnerships that resulted in more than $430 million in funding for infrastructure projects that bolstered the economy and residents’ quality of life. A recognized authority on public and private transportation and development funding, he guided the development and construction of the Southeast’s first multi-modal transportation center, Meridian Union Station. Smith is also a senior policy adviser to DC-based Smart Growth America and has served on the boards for Amtrak and the National Forum on the Future of Passenger Rail. Link to his online bio.
Full transcript:
Christina: Hello, everyone. I'm Christina Henderson, Executive Director of the Montana High Tech Business Alliance. Welcome to our webinar, Passenger Rail in Montana: How Trains could Transform Business Travel to Billings, Bozeman, Helena, Missoula and Beyond With John Robert Smith. This event is part of a series the Alliance is hosting with resources to support our members. You can find details of these sessions at mthightech.org/webinars. This webinar is a preview of the Montana Passenger Rail Virtual Summit to be held Thursday, September 17. You can register to attend the free summit to learn how you can support the work of the Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority in Montana. Our presenter today, John Robert Smith, is chair and senior policy advisor for Transportation for America. After John Robert's presentation, we will open the floor for a Q&A with the audience. We would ask you to mute your microphones until you have something to say and if you have a question or comment to share during the meeting, you can type it in the chat box or turn on your microphone to speak. Today's presentation will be recorded and available online. And I would now like to turn the floor over to John Robert Smith to get us started.
John Robert: Very good. Thank you, Christina. And thanks you all for spending a little time with me this morning or afternoon depending on where you are. I am in Mandeville, Louisiana, which is right across Lake Pontchartrain from New Orleans. So I decided to tempt you with my daughter's backyard just so you could see what it's like here in south Louisiana on this very beautiful September morning. Christina if you'll go to the first slide.
So I've enjoyed working with Dave Strohmaier and Christina and others looking at the passenger oil across Montana. Next slide. There you go. So, I am John Robert Smith, I spent 20 years in local government service 16 years as the Mayor of my hometown Meridian, Mississippi, it's a strong Mayor form of government. There we are on the Mississippi Alabama border. During my first term, which is now more than 30 years ago, we created the South's first multimodal transportation center, which you see in the background of the slide, bringing together passenger rail from New Orleans to New York, inner city bus, local transit, access to our highways on there in the downtown, very much an economic development project as much as the transportation project. In the midst of building that Transportation Center, Amtrak cuts service south of Atlanta. So there went one of my large modes of transportation, I organized the mayors from New Orleans to Atlanta, and we went to Capitol Hill to call on our senators and congressmen and after our visit, Senator Trent Lott, who was not the majority leader at the time, called Tom Downs, who was president of Amtrak and said, Tom, I didn't know I cared about Amtrak, but apparently I do. So what do we need to resolve this issue of cutting service. From that we were able to restore seven day a week service to most of the trains that lost service at the time, unfortunately, not those in your region. From that effort, I was appointed by President Bill Clinton to the Amtrak board of directors where I served for five years, the last two and a half years as Chairman of the board. During that time, we rolled out Acela, the nation's high speed rail, for the first time. We also sustained the long distance trains across the country and grew the state supported routes. My children would not let me seek a fifth term as mayor, so I was able to come to Washington, DC and join Transportation for America at its inception. And I've been there for 12 years. And in that capacity, we provide federal affairs and policy advice to the Southern Rail Commission. Next slide.
A little bit about Transportation for America. In essence, we're a national alliance of local state and regional elected leaders that have come together to see that our voice from these levels of government is heard at the State Capitol and at the Federal Capitol as to our transportation needs for the people we serve, and most importantly, that there are federal and state dollars that flow with those transportation leads. We think the vision for transportation connectivity created at the local level is that which is best. Next slide. So Transportation for America works on both sides of the aisle. I was a Republican mayor all of those years in a city that had a 65% majority Democrat population. So you learn very quickly that transportation solutions, and really any investment in the built environment does not know whether it's Republican or Democrat, it knows whether it has a return on investment for the people you serve. So working with Senator Trent Lott and Senator Frank Lautenberg, a conservative from Mississippi and a liberal from New Jersey, when I was on the Amtrak board we were able to sustain passenger rail across the country. When the authorization bill for Surface Transportation came to fruition we had worked with Senator Wicker from Mississippi, conservative Republican; and Senator Cory Booker from, again, New Jersey, liberal Democrat. Passenger rail had never been included in the surface transportation bill, it was highway and it was transit but never passenger rail. We were able to work with their offices and with the Southern Rail Commission, to actually include passenger rail in the surface transportation bill for the first time ever. And we created two funding streams that would allow you to invest in restoring passenger rail and operating passenger rail, the CRISI grant and the R&E grant, which I'll explain more in detail. But we also created the Gulf Coast Working Group authorized by congress, which required the Federal Railroad Administration to analyze restoring passenger rail service along the Gulf, from New Orleans through Mobile, potentially into Florida. What would it take to restore it? What would be the cost to restore it? How would it operate, what would be the payback to the communities, and that analysis was funded and appropriated by Congress at a million dollars split over two fiscal years. I think with CRISI we have an opportunity to get a lot of work done in the next authorization bill at the federal level to implement passenger rail throughout your region of the country. Next slide.
The CRISI grant program consolidated rail infrastructure and safety improvements program, basically that provides funding at the federal level for all of the capital needs of restoring service. So it will be a passing siding, a bridge improvement, crossing safety issues, anything that's in the built environment, including stations and surrounding improvements to those stations can be covered with a CRISI grant. It ranges from 20 to 50%, federal match to non federal and you can see the appropriations levels. So when you consider that you're going to have to do some rail improvements to the freight rail right away. CRISI is an existing program that will be reauthorized that could be a go-to source of funding for you. Next slide.
The restoration enhancement grant program provides operating support. So keep in mind most of the shorter distance what are now state supported routes in this country, were one time fully federally funded. So in order to give a new service such as Mobile, to New Orleans through the Mississippi Gulf, an opportunity to build its name recognition, its ridership schedule, we work to create the R&A grant program, which gives you federal funding for operating support 80%, the first year of operation 60%, the second 40% the third. So it allows you to ease into the full operating support that you will need to run a new service. And you see the appropriations levels layer. Next slide.
Now the Gulf Coast Working Group, as I said was created by Congress. They charged FRA with the authority to manage the working group. It brought together the interest of those four states in reinstituting passenger rail service, we specifically wrote into the language that it would include the southern rail commission, as well as the two railroads impacted and the FRA itself fully funded at the federal government level. And it provides congressional oversight to what would be a lopsided negotiation with the host railroad. So for example, um, as we began this process CSS, the host railroad came to the working group and said, 'Oh, well, we're going to need 2.3 billion that's with a B billion dollars, this two passenger rail service again.' And, of course, my reply was we went to Mars for 2.4 billion, I'm just trying to get to Mobile. These numbers are totally out of line. And when the fra did the analysis, it proved that in fact, it was $66 million needed to get to Mobile. And, in fact, Congress in the appropriations language, fully accepted the Gulf Coast working groups, assessment of need of capital, and specifically said they did not accept CSX analysis. So you Have some leverage that you would not have otherwise. Next slide. So the house you know, took a very aggressive position in passing what was first called the invest act and moving forward act and issue. See CRISI is reauthorized for five years at $7 billion, a lot of money to compete for R&A at 100 million over five years. That's the operating sport. But they created a new program called prime, which was $19 billion over five years, and by house not only authorized these levels, they appropriated these levels. Now, that's only half the equation. Obviously, you have to take action out of the Senate Commerce, to authorize and Senate Appropriations to provide the funding. Next slide.
So in the midst of this, and we, by the way, we think we'll have very good results out of the Senate Commerce Committee chaired by Senator worker, we've spent a good bit of time with Senator Cantwell from Washington State that is ranking member and with every member on the Commerce Committee think we're going to get a very, very robust authorization in the senate when they finally act, and would expect perhaps not the same 60 billion level of the house but a significant investment in passing trail out of the Senate. And again, we're going to come out of COVID it's how do we come out? Do we come out? Do you really want to come out just where you were? Or do you want to come out with economies that are better linked with wise transportation choices, and I think that's where Congress is ultimately headed. So Amtrak supplemental requests to all ridership, whether aviation or bus or train plummeted with the coronavirus pandemic, and its tremendous impact on this country. So Amtrak came back to Congress, keep in mind transit is asking for 32 billion with a B of support from Congress, Amtrak came back and said, We'd like a supplemental on top of the 2 billion they were given in the CARES Act, We want a supplemental of 1.54 or 5 billion. And even if you give us that number, we're still going to cut all long distance trains two free days a week. And we're going to lay off, furlough, almost 4000 employees. Now those are the choices you want to make in a devastated economy that we're in at this point.
So next slide, we need to look at what is actually occurring in ridership. Now, during, and through COVID. As you look at first the line graph and then the bar graph below, you're looking at the blue line is Acela, the high speed rail. The yellow line is along the top is a long distance kind of orange line is the Northeast Regional and the state supported is the green line. But if you look at that, what system has returned fastest and shows the greatest change in bookings year over year. It's long distance trains. If you look at the numbers of passengers carried up through this pandemic it's the long distance trains that have done that, with the state supported trains far out producing the Acela or the Northeast Regional lines. And today, the long distance trains are providing 60% of all revenue to Amtrak, more than the state supported trains or the northeast part of trains combined. Next slide.
So Amtrak said they would save close to $300 million, $280 million, by curtailing long distance service and laying off 3700 people. The Amtrak labor did the analysis of what that would actually amount to by the time you transfer labor costs off of Amtrak and own to the general fund. And the true savings are only about $40 million. And that's with cutting service across the country and laying off 3700 people. Next slide.
But working with Rail Passenger Association using the same modeling tool that we created for the service along the Gulf From New Orleans to Mobio. When you look at what service reduction does, for example, we've red boxed the Empire Builder, we looked at six different trains of the 12 different long distance trains impacted. Look at what it does to the local economies served by the Empire Builder. The impact of empire builders with those economies is almost 600 million annually. When you've cut it to three days a week, you're stripping out almost $300 million of revenue from those economies that are impacted. This is based on state tourism data from each of the states and localities impacted by the Empire Builder. So you see clearly that what was proposed to be 300 million savings, which is actually 40 million, if you're looking at just labor, then you're 40 million. Also hammers, just the Empire build about almost 300 million, I don't think those are the kind of choices that we want to make at the federal level. Next slide.
Because if you lose Passenger Rail, you're not going to get it back. And you've seen that. You've lost service through the southern part of your state, and you haven't gotten it back yet. So I'm talking about ways that you can get it back now. So the Southern Rail Commission that I mentioned to you is one of a kind entity, it was established by an act of Congress in 1982. The members of the Commission are appointed by the governors of the three states as the only such commission with the authority that it has, it actually covers Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi. Next slide. And they have been very successful in competing for the CRISI grant, receiving a total of $66 million and operating support of $20 million to connect those cities along the golf. But the commission also works to support the crescent, which runs through Harrisburg and Meridian, my hometown to New York, and the city of New Orleans, which runs of course to Chicago, and meets up with Empire Builder there. And then the Sunset Limited, which runs west to LA. Next slide.
We looked, we wanted to make a case of economic impact and economic development potential, you know, if you build an interchange on the interstate, you don't build it on how much you're going to charge every car to get home. What you say is that economic development is going to be spurred by this interchange on the interstate, Well think of passenger rail as an interstate of steel. And that station you develop in the stock you create for passing through oil is that interchange. So looking at the Gulf Coast service, we created a to using working with the Trent Locs Center at the University of Southern Mississippi. And so it's obviously not a liberal think tank that's running these numbers, it's a very conservative estimate. And the impact of this service annual to those three states is almost $550 million dollars. Another construction, obviously one time of 50 million, but you can see that when the states put up $33 million to match federal money or the needed capital investment, it is dwarfed by the annual return expected when that train starts running with two trains a day every train receiving four stops. Next slide.
The important point to consider on the commission is once appointed, they are autonomous. So they don't have to go back through their DOT or back through their government. Um, they have standing and can compete directly for CRISI Grant or for that Prime grant that will be coming along, and we expect the matches to be reduced to a 10% non federal and 90% federal. So the commission is able to act quickly and act jointly. And they support each other over a sustained vision and so right now in this country, any passenger rail investments are fragmented, you have different state policies. You have unreliable support from Amtrak at the present. State policies change, you have a governor elected that says look don't want to do passenger rail and so the effort dies. And we've seen that happen in a number of cases. The advantage of the model of the Southern Rail Commission is that there are three states that have a regional vision, it doesn't change when you change your governor or a DOT secretary. So we're calling for the creation of five more of these interstate commissions. The governors of the states impacted would appoint the commission members, there are six from each state, I think it's the perfect opportunity for you to create a Big Sky Coalition working with probably North Dakota, Idaho, Washington State, perhaps Oregon, to create the original vision and work to implementation, and to also create a Big Sky Working Group. So that the analysis you'll need to do for whatever passenger rail you would like to implement or have aspired to implement over the past 30 years, you get the federal government to pay for all of that analysis report back to Congress, it gives you an immediate open door to then seek out the CRISI grants. And you've already got a federal study showing what would be needed and it would show the economic impact to the region. So you have much more credibility. And this is language all being written in the Commerce Committee. If you are such a commission, you would have a priority to consider when USDA does consider you for a CRISI grant or a prime grant.
So these are some of the possible lines you might have in discussion as well as the existing route which unfortunately, given their own design, Desire's Amtrak will cut to three days a week. But we're fighting that every single day. We actually wrote questions for the house CNI rail subcommittee, which had a hearing with Amtrak this morning. And I believe you're going to see about 2.8 billion appropriated for Amtrak to sustain the long distance system and prevent the furloughs because you've got to have the people who run the trains if you get rid of the people who run the trains, and how rapidly can you possibly return that service? So we weren't those issues. But, you know, certainly happy to answer any questions that you have and work with you. I became aware, I've been in Montana, doing work a good bit, also providing policy advice to localities and they've done that in Montana, and in Idaho and your surrounding states. But when I was making my rounds on Capitol Hill to be confirmed, for appointment to the Amtrak board, the senators in especially Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and Washington State made me swear that I would not be a part of cutting any further rail service in the country. So I knew it was of critical importance to you. Then unfortunately, as we began to expand our program, we had a president elected who zeroed out all Amtrak, so it was a great fight just to sustain that which we had, but I think you have an opportunity to take an aspiration of 30 years of restoration of service and make it a reality. So Christina, with that, I'll be happy to take questions.
Christina: Okay. Well, we'll open it up to our audience. If anybody has initial questions. Feel free to either share in the chat or unmute yourself and speak, either way will work.
One initial question I have for you, John Robert, is if you look at our current northern route, it really is more of a tourism oriented route or for people who are trying to get from a bigger city in the central us out to Seattle, let's say whereas the southern route for for us in Montana could legitimately be a commuting or business travel train route because it hits our major population centers, can you offer any insights as to, you know, the differences between the two and how we can wrap our minds around the impact or understanding it? Because a lot of folks, as I've talked to them about this possibility, and the work of the newly forming rail commission, their minds think about trains in a tourism box. And they've not at all considered the possibility of in state or intrastate commuting.
John Robert: Sure. It's not one or the other. It's not the Empire Builder, or connecting cities along the southern tier of Montana. And you see this played out in the Southern Rail Commission, they fight to sustain the cross in the city of New Orleans, which has long distance trains and have a great deal of tourist value. And if you look at the Empire Builder, those numbers are based on not just your tourism number, but how many people board in and the board at your stops in Montana. So they have a significant tourist impact in Montana. And I know Whitefish did a great Tiger project around their main street to make it a much more walkable, livable place and connecting into those rail services. But having traveled through Montana, I know just what you said, your population bases are in the southern part of the state. So as we look at the service between New Orleans and Mobile, it's those population centers. And it's connecting military bases. It's connecting the shipbuilding employers to the workforce. So there are many Mississippians who go to Mobile for shipbuilding and shipping jobs as there are Alabamians and Louisianians, who come to Mississippi for the ship build. So it's also about connecting employers to the employee base, you have to have a schedule that makes sense which we've incorporated that into the service around the gulf, it has to be connecting the business centers that you do have in each one of those places. Not all of which are tourism by any means.
And when you have the further impact of distance in Montana, because having traveled by, Mississippi, and much of Louisiana and Alabama are rural, Montana is frontier. Your people will say you're a rural state, well, no, you're actually a frontier state. And there's a lot of space between that must be negotiated. And oftentimes, the weather is not conducive to that. And as you look at the economic development potential for your cities, and I think your manufacturers and your corporate headquarters, will all tell you that in looking for the next generation of employees, they're that millennial generation, we hear about so much. Christina, you may actually be one of those. And they're looking for places where you must have broadband connectivity, which we also work for challenging places. But you've got to have a downtown that pops. And then you've got to be connected to the larger region. So when I was visiting your colleges in Montana, one thing that students told me was that they have a car on campus as a way to get home for the holidays, if they actually live in one of the cities that would be connected by rail, if they had it. And that would be a way that they could safely use to go back and forth. And your instructors, your professors said the same thing. So if you're going to play in the economic development paradigm of the future, decisions of where to locate jobs are more and more predicated on where those employees want to be. And you've got to be connected in some way other than the private automobile. And you can't fly from one city in Montana to another city in Montana directly, I believe you fly somewhere else and fly back in. And of course, aviation is curtailing their central air service all across the country, and it's going to hit Mississippi and Montana and Maine, those states particularly hard, you don't want to be left with only an automobile as your choice.
Christina: Yeah, we started paying attention to this issue of rail at the request of our member companies who said this would be phenomenal for our business and make it easier for us to reach our customers in cities across Montana and also that they would be more likely to open new offices in additional cities in Montana, if they knew they had more convenient transportation to get there.
John Robert: And reach their workforce. Of course, keep in mind even on the long distance system many have WiFi. So one of the selling points along the Gulf is if you're not using it for recreation, it's strictly for business, then you've got a two to three hour trip that is all productive, where if you drive that, that's three hours lost. So you can be as engaged and work from that train. You couldn't be if you were in an automobile and really couldn't be if you were flying today.
Christina: That's surprising to me, are all of the long distance Amtrak trains currently WiFi enabled?
John Robert: There are I know, in my trip ... I practice what I preach, I ride the trains, and in headed from my hometown in Meridian to Washington, DC, there will be a dead spot up in the mountains as you get out of Atlanta, and you're following that ridgeline there will be a dead spot, but it comes and goes. And of course, as long as you have cell service, then you've got your WiFi connected, but Amtrak has employed WiFi on its trains. And actually the trains we use along the gulf, we're looking at some new equipment, because you only get one chance to start something new, and we want to make a real bold splash with it. And WiFi will be a specific concentration to make sure that it's absolutely seamless on that route. And while Amtrak may have the conductor and engineer, the Southern Rail Commission wants to control the board experience. So we will be serving food and beverages that are indicative of our three states. So your immersion in our southern culture begins when you step on the train, not when you get off. So think it's not only good for business and good for tourism, it's an experience that can be as productive as you want it to be while you're on that train.
Christina: John Robert, you also mentioned earlier the bipartisan support of rail and the associated economic development. Can you comment on what you've seen today in Montana's initial exploration of rail expansion?
John Robert: Absolutely. Both Senator Tester and Senator Daines have been absolutely supportive and very strong on number one, defending the service you have. And then number two, are there ways to grow service along the southern route. They don't want anyone to think they're giving up the northern route. And I certainly understand that, nor should they give it up. But I know the offices have talked to Senator Wicker's office about the support of such a commission and wanting to make sure that they would be a part of that. And so if you're going to have five and I've got West Virginia's two senators, Republican and Democrat, talking to Senator Wicker about wanting such a commission on what I'm finding is, in this horribly divided Congress on every single issue, if you listen to the confirmation hearing for two Amtrak board member nominees, we had Senator Moran from Kansas, very conservative, Senator Tester was there, Senator Rosen, Senator Cantwell, the only question they wanted answered was do you commit to support passenger rail through our states that exists and how it may be grown. So you're finding that this is not a partisan issue. At one time, it was hard to get Republicans to support rail. Not anymore and the reason is because they're hearing from people like you, and it's not about nostalgia. It's about positioning you for a healthy economy, especially now coming out of COVID. So yes, your senators I've worked with their staff, Dave knows because I always copy him on my emails to them. I send almost daily reports on ridership and revenue to those senate offices. I always hear back and they're always very responsive. So I don't take any sides in this. We're nonpartisan but I can tell you who supports it and who doesn't support it, and you're blessed, both sides of the aisle in your state support it.
Christina: That's great to hear. Oh, we had a few questions submitted ahead of time. So I'll read those out. First we had a question about, can we coordinate with nearby states for wider coverage? And maybe what would that look like?
John Robert: You know, one way to do it, and I applaud the effort within Montana to create the authority. But that authority won't reach outside of Montana. So that's where the commission takes you in the authority applied directly for federal grants. So the commission takes you from that, which is a very necessary step. By partnering with, and we've had Idaho on the calls, I know, they're very interested there. And of course, we're working through local government leaders and local business leaders. And we've had several calls with Washington State. I just had a call the day before yesterday with Washington's governor's staff about the creation of such a commission. So yes, you want it to be a commission to be more than one state. And with the Southern Rail Commission, the authorizing language allows us to also invite adjacent states, so we can invite Florida or Georgia or Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas, to join, as you could do if you started with Idaho and Montana, you could then invite North Dakota, any adjacent state, and there's real interest in, you know, Colorado in a connection that would make sense, working into your alliance. So get it started with states that agree and the governors that will appoint, and then you can add other states as you move forward. Think about it, what I'm trying to do with these conditions, the more of these conditions we have, the more senators I have to leverage when something happens.
Christina: We had another question about having a pollution-reducing train, like they do on the East Coast for people simply crossing the state. Could you maybe comment on that, and also about the potential environmental benefits of converting some of our car traffic to trains?
John Robert: You know, the greatest environmental impact is created by transportation, it's not by our industries anymore. You know, by and large, we're not belching out smoke in the environment anymore in our industries. But transportation continues to do that, you know, obviously, short hop air flights, as much as I love them in Mississippi, and you do in Montana, most inefficient ways to travel, but it's the personal automobile and the combustion engine that today are providing the greatest impact to the environment. Passenger rail is the least impactful even with the diesel service that we have in my part of the world is still by far the least impactful of any of the modes of transportation serving our region. Now on the east coast. The author of that question may be thinking about the what they call the Silver Service, which allows you to pull your car on a long auto rack and you store your car and then you have a sleeper on the train and it'll take you down to Florida, where you then offload the car and you experience all there is in Florida--that's called the auto train. And certainly, that reduces even further the environmental impact. The trains in the Northeast Corridor are electrified which reduces it even more. But I think the odds of electrifying cars through the Mississippi Gulf Mile or through Montana are very, very small, you can still accomplish a great deal of positive impact to the environment just with a passenger train taking all those what would be automotive trips, or firewise. One reason this Mississippi DOT is so supportive is they realize the more people I take off the highway in Mississippi, the less I'm going to have to repair those highways in Mississippi. And we don't have the freezing and thawing issues that you have in the Northwest. So DOTs can see this as a cost reduction issue for their maintenance and repair. Does that answer the question?
Christina: I think so. If folks have follow up questions, feel free to shout them out. We also had some questions from folks that are living in cities that are maybe off of the proposed path of the Southern route. Specifically, we had someone say that Malta was their closest Amtrak station, which is four hours each way and 500 miles round trip, but that they would benefit from passenger service along I-90, is there an efficient way to move passengers from more remote areas like Meagher County where White Sulphur Springs is located, to a train station. So do you have any thoughts on your point earlier about Montana's enormous geography, ways that more of our rural communities could participate in the benefits of the train?
John Robert: Well, Amtrak has run a connecting bus service. So it's an Amtrak branded bus from Meridian to Dallas Fort Worth. Now that's a long stretch, but they pick up in Jackson, Mississippi, the Capitol, for example, that would take you over to meridian and then you can ride the train to New York. It also picks up all of Northern Louisiana, so Monroe, Weston, and Shreveport are connected. For Mississippians, it could connect us to the Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. So Amtrak's already doing that. As a part of a gulf service, we look at additional Amtrak bus routes, and they can be privatized, those bus routes. So we had to connect from Mobile to Montgomery, or to Birmingham to the next bus service, we could connect over to Pensacola, Florida, which would connect by bus back into Mobile. There also points obviously, in Louisiana, Baton Rouge could be connected to New Orleans now by bus later by rail. So yes, there's already an existing model to connect fairly far distances, by an Amtrak label bus connecting you to the route. The beauty of that connection is you buy one ticket, and it gets you on the bus, your bags are on the bus, when the bus gets to the train station, your bags are loaded onto the train. And you have the same ticket to use whether you're on the bus or the train. So yes, there are ways to make that work.
Christina: With those sorts of additional transportation options, would those be part of the analysis that would be done by the working group?
John Robert: Yes, that's what we did in ways to connect first bus service with aspiration that it would then be by rail service. So if you prove that there's a significant ridership from the capital of Alabama, which is Montgomery, down to Mobile. you prove there's ridership, then you make the next step of saying okay, rather than a bus now let's make it a rail connection.
Christina: We had a question that's fairly specific, but I'll pose it to you in case you have comment about a budd car system from Great Falls to Helena, and whether it would be feasible to open up such a line between Helena and Great Falls. Do you have any thoughts on the feasibility of that suggestion?
John Robert: The budd cars that were specifically referenced in there manufacturers that are building additional what they call MDUs, I may have my acronym wrong there but it doesn't have a locomotive, it has a power call on one end, or perhaps on both ends. So in between New Orleans and Mobile, we're looking at a power car system on both ends so that we don't have to turn the train around because that can be a limiting factor if you're having to turn the locomotive or turn the train. It's basically called a push me pull you system. So yes, in a shorter distance, you wouldn't want to go a long distance, but we could do the New Orleans to Mobile route with such a system if we wanted to do that.
Christina: Excellent. Thank you.
John Robert: What's the difference, the distance is what 90 something miles between Helena? Yeah, that's a very serviceable distance for a budd type or power car system.
Christina: I have a question regarding, you know, in terms of both protecting the existing long distance rail that we have in Montana, and then also in supporting the initiatives to expand our rail to the Southern route. Do you have suggestions for ways that business leaders, whether it's private businesses, or associations like ours, can be supportive and make our voices heard as these conversations are happening around economic impact benefits to business? What are some things that we can be thinking about doing to support rail if we want to see this happen?
John Robert: Well, of course, the business voice is very impactful to your Senators and your congressperson. So they need to hear from you because there are a lot of wonderful people out there that believe in passenger rail, but they believe in it because they remember it so fondly when they were a boy. And that's been many years ago. So it's a, in many cases, a backward looking view of passenger rail. The business community won't take a backward looking view, they'll take a forward looking. And so I think your voice is particularly impactful. And honestly, I think it's the business voice that has helped change a lot of fiscally conservative minds when it comes to passenger rail. Keep in mind, there is no transportation system for human beings in the world that pays for itself out of the fare box, you read about all these wonderful trains in other parts of the world, they were built out by their national government. They may have different operators, but it was a national investment. Your highway system, the gas tax does not cover the full cost of your highway system at all. About $40 billion a year has to go from the general fund into the Highway Trust Fund just to make it balance. And that won't be enough. Aviation, if I were flying to Montana, and my ticket had to cover TSA agents, air traffic control, bill the airport, bill the runways? My ticket would be tens of thousands of dollars. All of those things are paid for out of the general fund, the air traffic control system that keeps us from flying into each other. That's all a federal obligation, the aviation industry doesn't pay for that. So when you think about that, then why would you expect passenger rail to pay for itself out of the fare box? It is very much a needed transportation service, just like air just like transit, just like highways and needs a strong federal court.
Christina: Thank you for that. Are there any other final questions from our audience? I'll allow a little bit of space. Here's Dave Strohmaier.
Dave: Hey, Christina.
Christina: Let me turn the floor over to you, you can comment on the link and the upcoming event.
Dave: Yeah, well, thanks so much, Christina. And thanks to the Montana High Tech Business Alliance for not only hosting today's event, but also being a co-sponsor of the upcoming summit. And thanks so much, John Robert, for this teaser today, which was a meaty teaser. You really added a lot of substance to this discussion. I appreciate it. And I appreciate the kids tempting us diving into the pool in the background there. But, yeah, one week from tomorrow, September 17, from 10am until 1pm, we will be hosting a virtual Montana Passenger Rail Summit. And John Robert Smith, who was our guest today, will be participating in that along with one of his colleagues, Beth Osborne from the organization that he's with, Transportation for America, we'll have the CEO of the Rail Passengers Association, Jim Matthews, the Secretary of Transportation for the state of Washington, just a whole range of great speakers. And I think John Robert hit the nail on the head that this event and this initiative that we're talking about today is all about positioning ourselves for the future and not just creating the transportation and economic world that existed eight months ago but setting us ourselves up for success to emerge from this pandemic, stronger and and better and more nimble than we are today. So www.montanapassengerrailsummit.org, get on there, check out the details of the event, and register. And we hope to see you there next Thursday.
Christina: Thank you, Dave, and thank you so much for your leadership and in helping to make this vision a reality. In Montana, I've been so impressed with the momentum that you and your team have built even during this crazy pandemic time. So thank you for all your leadership.
John Robert: Leadership at the local level is so absolutely critical. You know, I didn't know Dave, didn't know he was in office out in Montana hadn't met him any other previous trip. But you've got to have someone like Dave, at the local level, who immediately gets it, who then becomes a hard charging driver that brings in the other voices. I really appreciate the business community being such a strong proponent. And they've mentioned Beth Osborne will be on the convening that Dave is hosting. Beth was Assistant Secretary for Policy to the US Department of Transportation Under Secretary Ray LaHood. She helped create the TIGER grant program and administered it for the first six years of its existence, which is now a bill grant program. So Beth brings a federal hill and agency perspective from the DOT, that is critical in the work that I do and that we do together and I think will be critical to Dave.
Christina: Yes, thank you so much. And I will say as well, Dave is a Missoula County Commissioner. But a lot of the interest that I heard first, when Missoula started this initiative, came from Bozeman and from tech leaders and other parts of the state. So this really is a cross state interest for the business community. And it's proof that business doesn't necessarily follow the same boundaries in terms of counties or cities, like business is operating across Montana, really, as one collective in our case, tech economy. And so the inter-community collaboration is really encouraging to see and is going to be an important part of seeing this initiative come to fruition, so we appreciate the cross state support as well.
So for those of you that are interested in participating in that event on the 17th, there's a link in the chat, so you can grab the link that Dave mentioned from the chat, we will also send it out when we send out the video to everyone who's registered. So feel free to share this video and the related information with your friends and colleagues. We'd love to see you register for that Summit, which is free and will allow you to learn even more about the progress of this initiative and the opportunities that come with it. So with that, unless anyone has a final question to pose, we will wrap up. Again, thank you to John Robert, for joining us today. Register for that Montana Passenger Rail Virtual Summit on September 17. And thank you to John Robert and our audience for joining us today. Have a great day.